changed on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 3:25:24 PM

To the person who said that the man on the cross did not have to be baptized because Jesus told him he was saved, why would the Bible give an example, without an explanation, that is not the way it is for us? And of course Jesus wasn't going to take the man of the cross, but to be consistent with what you say, then it seems more likely to me that Jesus would have told the man that the consequence for what he did was to not be saved because he couldn't get baptized. And the Bible does NOT say that you have to be baptized. Every one of the verses that implies that could or should be interpreted differently. I wouldn't base my beliefs off of verses that are vauge in their meaning if I were you, not very smart. 

Acts 10:47, "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" The men had recieved the Holy Ghost before they were baptized. How can that be if you say baptism is the thing that saves you? And wouldn't baptism be considered works? In Ephesians 2:8-9 it says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." If baptism is not a work, I would really like to know why. 

changed on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:09:56 PM

Babies do not understand sin, so baptism has no effect. I also forgot to mention, in my last post, that you receive the Holy Spirit WHEN you are baptized. It's in the Bible, that's all I can really say. 

Hi. I don't agree w/ the people who are saying baptism doesn't save you. It's right there in the Bible, just read it. Also, to the person who gave the example of the sinner on the cross...if Jesus came into your room, and said, "You do not have to be baptized.", than that's fine, but he didn't. You have to go w/ what's in the Bible. Jesus can do whatever he wants. He wanted to save that man, so He just did. Plus, He wasn't going to make the man disappear off the cross, get baptized, than come back on...that would have proven to everybody there that he was from God. He was dying as a man. 

Hi, I know this is late but I just have to say this. For the most part I agree with the post of July 13,2000. The only exception is that Baptism is an outward sign that we have accepted the truth and are saved. This is the equivelent of confessing only we need to go beyond this.Our salvation does not depend on baptism. Infants, on the other hand, I feel, do not know what baptism is all about, so my feeling is that a person needs to be baptised at a later time when they do understand what it is all about. I also believe that the Holy Ghost comes to people at different times in different ways depending on where they are spiritually. 

The gift of the Holy Spirit comes after we believe the truth Eph 1>13-14
Salvation does not depend baptism Baptism is the first step of obedience we take after we are saved.
You need to believe before you are baptised otherwise it is not a step of obedient faith
God has no grand children only children
You become a child of God when you believe the truth of God's word concerning Jesus the Lamb of God and the Saviour of the world and call upon his name. Every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved
You believe with your heart and confess with your mouth.
Those who practise infant baptism also practice confirmation where the child confirms his faith when he comes of age 

also understand that the new testement salvation did not occur until ACTS 2:38, jesus' crucifiction was the key. after his blood was shed and the outpour of his holy ghost came to past in ACTS chapter 2. salvation began there. if peter answered the quesiton in acts 2:37, belive in god and your all saved, it would have been a different story, but he told them plainly in this scripture the plan. and that is whats part of "the apostles doctrine" belive that to truly know your saved you must consent to the "wholesome" word of god and not jsut a verse or two. I timothy 6:2. it is the only way to test a spirit and the only way to know your savation. if anything contradicts to the bible, you must think twice b4 beliving it 

Apostle, I am sorry, but to say I am not saved because I was baptised as an infant is rather legalistic and not in keeping with what I know is God's will. Secondly, there is no real basis in saying that baptism washes us of our sins. Thirdly, I was not asking if infant baptism was valid. Since, posting this question two years ago, I have come to know that there are at least TWO baptisms and both are SYMBOLIC of what dwells within us. It is a pure heart that brings us to baptism, not the other way around. And finally, if your religion tells you that God is so unloving that he will refuse someone eternal life simply because they werent baptised as an adult, then its not a religion I can buy into for it smacks of exclusionism, is not loving, and in no way represents the God I have come to know through reading of scripture, experience, reason and tradition. 

Yes Baptism is part of salvation. and you cannot get into heaven without being born again [John 3:3].
baptism as an infant is not backed by the bible, reason being, a child cannot repent of sins. the plan is in ACTS [2:38]. you must repent before being baptised, and then be baptised to cleans yourself from sin. after this is done, you can receive the holy spirit for it will not dwell in an unclean temple(body). [Rom 3:4] - let god be found true; but every man a liar, as it is written...
-Apostle 

James 2:14- faith without works is dead faith. though faith saves us, it is acting upon our faith that justifies it for god. if we believe in god truly we would take the extra step and repent, be baptised, and receive the holy spirit. as they had to be jsutified in the old testement, we are now by acting upon salvation. 

The apostles were asked in ACTS 2:37 "how must we be saved". ACTS 2:38 is plain and simple and is backed by the rest of the bible. faith alone cannot save you(John 2).And unless you are born of water(baptism) and spirit(holy ghost) you cannot see heaven(john 3:3) the new testement church was formed in the 2nd book of ACTS and the new testement plan of salvation as well. this is the apostles Doctrine that saved many through out the new testement.
Research the apostals
doctrine. ACTS 2:42 ; ACTS 5:28; Romans 6:17; 1 timothy 1:3; 1 timothy 6:3 

Baptism does not bring salvation. Salvation is saving the man from falling over the cliff. Baptism is cleaning off the grease that made him slip in the first place.
The baptism of infants can be considered involuntary and is therefore relevant mostly for symbolism and custom.
There are many Gifts of the HS and a few types of baptism. The baptism of water is the basic only. After that comes the baptism of the Holy Spirit, where the Gifts really come in. You might want to do some research on Baptism if you want to find out more. 

I do not believe that water baptism saves us. When Jesus was on the cross he told one of the 2 theives which were crucified with him that on this day he will be with him in paradise. Luke 23:43.

Jesus didnt say o jump down from here and let me make a pool of water and baptize u so u can come with me.

In John 3 when Nicodemus came to see Jesus, he told him we have to be born again in order to see the kingdom of God. We have to be born of the water and the Spirit. (John 3:5) In this context, he speaks of water as the Word of God.

We are baptized with water out of obedience. Jesus is the Word of God and yet he was baptized. It was not because he wasn't saved but for obedience sake. 

Hello gwteach,

In the book of Acts, "receiving the Holy Ghost" many times means the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said in [Acts 1:5]
"For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

And in the book of Acts we see the beginning of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This gift does not have to come after baptism of water ... which is what I think you are talking about when you talk about baptism of infants in water. It comes when we understand and ask for it [Acts 2] or by laying on of hands by fellow believers [Acts 8:17].

In [Acts 10:45-48] we see Cornelius, a Gentile, and his family receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit at almost the same time that they received salvation. They were baptised in water later [Acts 10:48].

Salvation does not depend on baptism. Salvation is defined in [Romans 10:9-10]
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is so simple for us to obtain salvation. We don't have to work for it but we just have to believe with our heart and confess with our mouth.

Does baptism save also? Yes, according to [Mark 16:16]
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Can a baby believe and be baptized? I think that would be difficult as they do not have an understanding yet of what is happening.

We are all given free will by God to choose and baptism is a choice when we truly believe.